Prove It!

“For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don’t believe, no proof is possible.”–Stuart Chase

The birthers

Take a look at this Tea Party rally photo.  The sign reads: “Obama, my forefathers were Christian, yours were from Kenya. That explains a lot about you.”

I believe it’s safe to say that the sign wielder is either hopelessly bigoted, helplessly stupid, or a good bit of both.  

First dealing with the stupid signs

First of all, Christian and White/European/(whatever he considers himself) are two different things; this person obviously doesn’t understand that there is an inimitable difference between nationality and/or race and religion.  If this person seriously agrees with the message on his sign, he probably can’t tell the difference between an Arab and a Muslim as well.  Just as there are Christians in every race, there are Muslims in every race; Malcolm X learned that the hard way.

Secondly, this person assumed that because Obama’s forefathers were from Kenya, they weren’t Christian.  Granted, they were Muslims and subscribers of regional Kenyan beliefs, but does this automatically mean that all people in Kenya are devout Muslims?   Are there no Christians in Kenya?  And his forefathers actually may actually not have been Christian; the sign wielder is white, and the Europeans were actually pagan prior to their indoctrination of Christianity.

A wise old Republican once told me, “Assume makes an ASS out of U and ME.”

Thirdly, Obama draws his roots from not only Kenyans, but from Americans as well.  He’s biracial.  As a matter of fact, he’s related to Dick Cheney and George Bush. To top it all, he was raised by his white mother and grandparents, so his actions have absolutely nothing to do with his Kenyan roots.

White Slavery...yeah, ok.

Obama’s Plan: White Slavery

*Sigh.* This is stupid beyond words. This is odd when his half of his family is white, a majority of his staff is white, and he’s picked a white vice president, and the list goes on… What really makes me laugh is that while they’re so hung up on proof of Obama’s birth certificate, they have no proof that he’s going to systematically enslave the white race.

Seriously, just shut up.

...Seriously?

The Camel?

“Impeach Owebama & the camel he rode in on.”

Every time I see a black Tea Party member, I wince.  I don’t know exactly how to react.  The Tea Party Movement supposedly wasn’t based upon racism and intolerance, but a revolt against excessive government taxation and spending.  Fair enough.  If it had been restrained to that, I would have actually considered joining.  But on contrary, it has spread so much false information, radical principles that defy logic (such as cutting government spending but retaining services, complete privatization of social security, etc.), and has been doused with blatant intolerance.

If by white slavery, they meant that their taxes will be heavier due to Obama’s lenience towards social services, such as welfare, food stamps, and the such (I’ve heard this argument before), I’d like to remind them that there are: black taxpayers as well (believe it or not), there are white people on welfare (believe it or not), and that all of these social services were actually created by mostly white people, such as Lyndon B. Johnson’s War on Poverty.

I mean, seriously.  A Camel? Need I say more?

Now to the actual point of this post

Like many people endowed with common sense, Hawaii’s new governor Neil Abercrombie is sick and tired of this Obama birth dilemma and wants to put an end to it all. Quite frankly, he claims it is a personal insult; he personally knew Barack’s parents, Barack Obama Sr. and Stanley Ann Dunham and saying that questioning the location of his birth is “an insult to his mother and to his father.”

And if you really think about it, it is.  When in the past 100 years have we had so much controversy about the birthplace of a president? Never.  Accuse me of whipping out the race card, but when along comes a president that has a funny sounding name and looks a bit different then what “we’re used to,” we have a load of feces on our hands.

Hawaii’s health director, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, actually said this when questioned about the validity of Mr. Obama’s birth in Hawaii:

“I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawaii State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago….”

Funny thing is, no matter what proof you provide a birther (name appointed to the people who continue to deny that Barack was born in Kapiolani Maternity & Gynecological Hospital in Honolulu on Aug. 4, 1961), he will continue do deny it.  Why?  Because he does not want to believe.  So Stuart Chase was right. For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don’t believe, no proof is possible.

To make my point clear, here’s an argument reasonable person and a birther, condensed by blogger kstreet607 :

Condensed Version Of Birther Dialogue With A Reasonable Person:

RP: “OK, so to recap, you wanted Obama to release a birth certificate, but when he did, you accused it of being a forgery? Right?”

Birther: “Right.”

RP: “And you say that if he simply shared his long-form birth certificate with the public, that could be forged too? Right?”

Birther: “Right.”

RP: “So you want him to release his long-form birth certificate and to have that birth certificate reviewed by a judge, to satisfy his critics and answer the questions they’re asking? Right?”

Birther: “Right.”

RP: “And if the judge affirms that the birth certificate is legitimate and it says his place of birth was Hawaii, you say it might be falsified, right?”

Birther: “Right.”

RP: “And even if he proves he was born in Hawaii, you claim he’s still not a natural-born citizen because of his mother’s first marriage, right?”

Birther: “Right.”

RP: “And if he then proves that the marriage isn’t an issue, you claim he’s still not a natural-born citizen because of his father’s citizenship, right?”

Birther: “Right.”

RP: “And if he then proves that his father’s citizenship isn’t an issue, you claim he’s still not a natural-born citizen because of his mother’s second marriage, right?”

Birther: “Right.”

RP: “And if he then proves that his mother’s second marriage isn’t an issue, you claim he’s still not a natural-born citizen because of his supposed adoption, right?”

Birther: “Right.”

RP: “And if he then proves that he didn’t give up his citizenship via adoption, you claim that he’s still not a natural-born citizen because of his 1981 travel to Pakistan, right?”

Birther: “Right.”

RP: “And if he then proves that he didn’t give up his citizenship via passport, and even when you run out of citizenship arguments completely, you then claim his election is illegitimate because his legal surname is Soetoro, right?”

Birther: “Right.”

RP: “So you want to know why Obama won’t take the simple measure of releasing his birth certificate, when you already have at least eight consecutive fall-back arguments you’ll make if he does so, whereby you’ll continue to insist that he’s ineligible for the Presidency even after he proves that he was born in Hawaii?”

Birther: “Right.”

RP: “Y’know, if I were Obama, I think I’d save my ten dollars too.”

Found at: http://barackryphal.blogspot.com/2009/01/for-inauguration-day-birther-platonic.html

So, Birthers, you believe that Obama was born in Kenya?  How about asking for his Kenyan birth certificate instead?

C’mon, prove it!

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About Lòt Poto-a

I've taken advantage of this device to shed my view upon the universe from my spatio-temporal framework. View all posts by Lòt Poto-a

14 responses to “Prove It!

  • ohioborn1

    Re: “you believe that Obama was born in Kenya? How about asking for his Kenyan birth certificate instead?”

    The trouble is that the have FORGED “Kenyan birth certificates” several times. The document that would prove that Obama was born in Kenya–which is as likely as his being born on the moon–would be a US travel document issued in Kenya.

    That would be either a US visa on a British passport or the change to Obama’s mother’s passport to include Obama. Either of these would have HAD to have been issued if Obama were born in Kenya and then went to the USA–or we would not have let him in. Either of those documents would be easy to find because there were not all that many issued in Kenya in 1961, but no such document has been found–for the very obvious reason that there isn’t any.

    • Lòt Poto-a

      Ha ha, true, my friend. I’ve seen the forged documents. They all have similar flaws:

      A.) The age of Barack Obama Sr. at the birth of Jr. is incorrect.
      B.) It was signed by “regrististrar E. F. Lavender” Earth Friendly Lavender…that’s a kind of soap. seriously.
      C.) The publication is on Feb. 17, 1964 as the “Republic of Kenya.” Kenya didn’t even go under that name until December 12, 1964
      D.) It says he was born in Mombasa (just so happens to be the more Muslim part of Kenya), however, the family lives far from there on the other side of the country. Funny thing is, Mombasa didn’t even have an international airport until the 70’s, and wasn’t even part of Kenya. It was part of Zanzibar

  • Ellen1

    I agree with you completely, and the idea that two poor students would have made such a trip in 1961 is crazy, and the idea that a woman would have made such a trip late in pregnancy in 1961 (and only late in pregnancy does the scenario work) is also crazy, and the idea that IF they had made the trip and given birth they would have wanted to claim that child was born in America is also strange, and the idea that if they had wanted to do it, they could have gotten away with getting the child into the USA without a US travel document such as a visa is also crazy, and finally, to do that and to convince the officials in Hawaii that the child was born in Hawaii makes the whole thing fantastic.

  • alilovesloki

    The crazy thing is- is that they would forge a birth certificate. After all, I used to think Obama was born in Hawaii, but I don’t know what to believe now. I read a biography about him and for the most part, it talked about Hawaii and Kenya, nothing much. It even said, I think, that he was born in Hawaii. How strange that his own biography lied. The book was also in my school’s library. I thought we were supposed to learn something true there.

    • Lòt Poto-a

      So you basically believe that he wasn’t born in Hawaii.

      The thing is, the forged birth certificates that you speak of were forged by people who wanted to prove that he was born in Kenya . He was obviously not, since his “Kenya” birth-certificate was riddled with all of the ridiculous errors that I posted in a comment about a bit earlier.

      The thing is, he was born in Hawaii. End of story. He is the first president that everyone has made such a big fuss about his origin of birth, simply because he’s not white. In the last 100+ years, which other president had to “prove that he was born in the country?” If he was born outside of the country or country grounds, the FBI and NSA wouldn’t even let him get on the ballot .

  • Lily

    The problem is, you can’t definitely say, with 100% certainty and 0% doubt, that Obama was born in Kenya or that Obama was born in Hawaii. There’s errors in the Kenyan birth certificate. And I’m sure if you looked hard enough, you’d find errors in Obama’s Hawaiian birth certificate.

    But guess what? People screw up and mistakes happen. My friend was born in April of 1995 but his birth certificate somehow got messed up and according to the government’s database, he was born on April of 1994 and is legally 16.

    Plus, if I were a gun-ho anti-Birther, leaking a fake Kenyan birth certificate with obvious mistakes onto the Internet would be a fantastic way to invalidate Birthers, right?

    Anything’s possible.

    But no matter what the truth is, the whole matter is rather ridiculous. After all, why should a person’s birthplace, something a newborn has no control over, and something that happened decades ago, influence ones presidential eligibility or ones ability to run a nation?

    I personally have no idea whether Obama was born in Hawaii or Kenya, nor do I really care. I do, however, believe that eligibility requirements for presidency should be reexamined.

  • Lòt Poto-a

    Your point is duly acknowledged.

    One thing we’ve learned to realize is that it is impossible to know anything with 100% certainty and 0% doubt. There is not one thing in this universe that we know with full certainty.

    My biggest guess as to the requirement for a candidate to be a naturally born citizen is that it is an attempt to avoid people in power who bow down to another country, who are loyal to a country other than our own. Stupid thing is, there are many %100, all-American people who just happened to be born in another country-they are moved to the U.S. and are raised in the U.S., and that is basically all they know. This is clearly evident in the case of thousands of Mexican-born Americans who are likely to be deported anytime to a country that they know practically nothing of.

    I’ll have to agree with you, though. I know immigrants that are ten-times more able to lead this country than some Americans, but are not able to, due to the presidency requirements. But remember Rome. One of the reasons for their fall was their inability to regulate foreign people who weakened their country from within.

    -L

  • Thomas Evans

    Okay here is something that I’ve been dying to point out that always seems overlooked.

    Article 2, Section 1 of the Constitution, the part that defines the office of the President states, and I quote:
    No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President

    • Thomas Evans

      Sorry, I didn’t finish. This is key. It does NOT state that the individual must be born in the US, it notes they must be a citizen by birth. So, since his mother WAS an American Citizen, and so, by definition, so is Barak Obama, regardless of where he was born.

      You do not have to be born in the US to be a citizen unless you’re parents aren’t citizens.

      Drives me nuts.

      • Lòt Poto-a

        It’s all in the rhetoric, isn’t it?

        It’s a bit odd that it would be ” at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution,” given the fact that this basically eliminates all later generations…

        But I half agree (if this is even possible) with Lily (above). She stated:

        But no matter what the truth is, the whole matter is rather ridiculous. After all, why should a person’s birthplace, something a newborn has no control over, and something that happened decades ago, influence ones presidential eligibility or ones ability to run a nation?

        I personally have no idea whether Obama was born in Hawaii or Kenya, nor do I really care. I do, however, believe that eligibility requirements for presidency should be reexamined.

        It does seem rather shallow that this is one of the greatest eligibility requirements for presidency, but remember that we want people loyal to America to run for presidency, not aliens.

        But then again, there are immigrants who are ten times more adequate for leadership than lazy American young adults who would rather watch football all day and party than to be active members of their state.

        Too bad they can’t fully express their duty to the country they sacrificed to much to become a member of…

  • Thomas Evans

    Agreed. I can think of no more devoted and loyal American than my father, and he was an immigrant.

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